Oh.. Wren nods in recognition. He does intentionally remove himself from radio music when he's writing, which is most of the time, but it's more to try to remove himself from subtle influence, not really for a lack of appreciation for some of it. There's a difference, between music that's been sanitized, rewritten or handed off for the amusement of an unchallenged crowd, and music that's simply accessible or liked because it's good. It would be nearly impossible to keep up with press during the last few years without stumbling upon the name Phoenix Rising. From what he can recall, he's enjoyed their theatricality and harmonies. There's an ambition to it he can appreciate, even if it's not quite what he feels compelled to create himself.

"I won't say I'm a rabid fanboy," Wren says, smiling. "But I've heard of them." Pronouns get weird talking about bands and writing. "I've liked what I've heard. Living under a microscope not so much your thing?" he asks with a bit of a smile. Enfants Sauvages were never quite that level of famous, but it was still tiring being expected to be present for certain things, having people speculate on his life online or asked to dissect his own music.